Note: Comments of readers are their own and do not reflect the feelings of Bob Lonsberry or lonsberry.com.
100 Responses to:
SHOOT AND SHOOT, AND SHOOT SOME MORE
# 1. 8/1/12 12:16 AM by PAUL - MARTIN
Bob, you always seem to hit the nail on the head. It's too bad the our politicians don't have that ability. It's a sad time for all those that were at the theater. However, I remind people that similar actions happen almost daily here in our city. There is not much difference if twenty people die at once or one at a time. People die and there are no one that escapes the tragity of death of a family member or friend. We all must be prepared to defend ourselves legally. There is an old saying, "It is better carried and not need it (a gun) than needed it and not carried."
# 2. 8/1/12 3:31 AM by B Smith
Go to the mall for a shoot out. No thanks. If everyone carried guns at Carousel or Destiny you would have a gun fight every Friday and Saturday night. With that thought I would rather outlaw guns.
Editor's Note: you and obama and the democrats. fortunately, americans feel differently.
# 3. 8/1/12 3:37 AM
So speakerh the NRA's shill
# 4. 8/1/12 6:19 AM by pp - r
That's great in theory, however when he can advance and fire at you with 50x your rate of fire, you are dead. It won't work, Bob. Not only that, he's started firing by the time you draw your concealed weapon, so you are at a further disadvantage.
Being a cowboy is great in theory, but in reality, people in that theatre were screwed no matter who in the audience had a gun.
Editor's Note: are you french?
# 5. 8/1/12 6:20 AM by prick - webster
Big talk from a little man. You would have run and hid as best you could without ever firing a shot. And if you did shoot, you would have hit innocent people and not the gunman.
# 6. 8/1/12 6:26 AM by Clair - Henrietta, NY
I couldn't agree more Bob. Very well said. We have to be prepared to protect ourselves. We certainly can't always depend on the law enforcement or the government to protect us.
Editor's Note: when seconds count, the police are just minutes away
# 7. 8/1/12 6:28 AM by DaWiz - San Antonio, Texas
What's the old saying? "Id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"? I wonder why we haven't heard about a bunch of civil lawsuits against the theater owners yet? Better yet, criminal charges against the owners for 'Conspiracy before the fact in mass murder' for denying the customers their God-given right to self defense.
# 8. 8/1/12 6:47 AM by Joe - Rochester NY
Bob, I think I get it. One coward shooting in a crowded theater is bad but 8-10 brave people shooting back in a crowded theater is good. A little more what we used to call "collateral damage" but so what. There have been 62 mass shootings since 2005 – not one case of a good guy with a gun on site? Stay tuned for number 63 coming soon to a city near you.
# 9. 8/1/12 6:52 AM by Al - Hornell,
Funny how the gun control crowd talks about bans on weapons when their messiah and his cronies allowed something like fast and furious to happen.
# 10. 8/1/12 6:52 AM by Gary M - Hornell NY, USA
when that first round strikes him, and he thinks "oh crap" you have already won.
Editor's Note: exactly
# 11. 8/1/12 6:55 AM by Bob Osso - Riverton, UT
One caution that I'll add is that light bullets may not have enough momentum to damage a bad guy through body armor, at least not as much as I'd want to damage him. Choose a caliber with the greatest combination of bullet weight and velocity that you can shoot accurately.
Editor's Note: against body armor, if penetration is your desire, velocity is the most important factor
# 12. 8/1/12 6:57 AM
Right, another person firing in a dark theater filled with tear gas at a guy with body armor and no reason to care about the safety of anybody in the theater. Great idea.
# 13. 8/1/12 6:57 AM by Tom Dey - Springwaer, NY
Well explained, Bob. That's the one thing that surprised me. Even with the planned blind-sided audience...he got a hell of a lot of rounds off (including vulnerable reloading) without being attacked. "Duck and cover" doesn't protect any better against a crazed close-range shooter than an atomic bomb. The audience had the advantage of numbers - half young men. Logic would say rush him, take him down - STOP him. Instead we got deer in the headlights and far more injury. One reason society was safe in the 50s is any crowd included myriad WWII vets. We KNEW these manly men would protect the vulnerable without hesitation. The (very few) bad guys knew that too. Same scenario would have resulted in (at most) a few killed or injured and the loon behind bars punched out and lacking a few teeth. Speedy trial; death row; green mile; execution. Violent crimes were extraordinarily rare back then - especially in public places.
Editor's Note: if five guys rush him, and he kills four of them, the fifth guy takes him down, and the rest of the crowd beats him to death. unless everybody runs away.
# 14. 8/1/12 7:43 AM by Carl
Alcohol has killed thousands of lives and relationships every year. Can we out law that?
# 15. 8/1/12 8:00 AM by Rick G - Spencerport, NY
In the highly unlikely event that I’m the guy with the gun and a lunatic goes nuts, I can’t honestly say I know exactly what I’d do. I can hit a target the size of a head at 15 yards, but that’s under a controlled circumstance.
But I know myself. I’ve never been the nail in a bad situation and I think most handgun owners know that even if the chance is small, they might someday have to use their gun. Am I ready to die? Hell no, but I am ready to protect.
You’re going to get your fair share of comments from cowards today. I’ve already read a few. Here’s my advice for them: bob and weave. You might have a chance.
# 16. 8/1/12 8:02 AM by Bob Osso - Riverton
Which is why I carry a 10mm. Heavy bullet PLUS very high velocity. Even if it doesn't penetrate a vest, it spalls.
---Editor's Note: against body armor, if penetration is your desire, velocity is the most important factor---
# 17. 8/1/12 8:06 AM by Marlene - Allegany County
The subway shooting long ago will always stick in my mind. One man on the subway car said that if he'd been allowed to carry his concealed weapon there would have only been one person killed. I commit to getting a pistol permit and preparing myself. Perhaps if others do the same, some good may come of this tragedy.
# 18. 8/1/12 8:13 AM by Matt - Rochester, NY
Actually Bob, I haven't gotten the results of your "All Americans Poll" which shows that Americans want assault weapons of all kinds legal. Where is that posted? And if that theater was full of "need a gun to feed my ego" people like you, there would have been many more dead than what actually happened. The only people who have guns like this are people who have extremely low self-esteem and want to show off for some reason....like yourself. And tell me, when Obama was elected, I think most of you Republicans said it was the end of gun rights in America. Guess you were wrong...again. And you also said he was a Muslim? Guess you were wrong again. And that he is not even an American citizen? Guess you were wrong again. And the American public is supposed to trust the Republicans? Get real---you guys are wrong more often than not.
# 19. 8/1/12 8:39 AM by Matt - Rochester, NY
Actually maybe you should all be carrying guns into an enclosed theater. Based on your comments and the other gun "fools" in this forum, I would have loved to see you all defend each other in that theater. I especially love the people who drop gun names in here---they obviously are trying to make up for some short-fall in their life. I believe in our Constitutional right to own guns, but I don't go around bragging about what guns I have---makes you look like a whack job no different from the Colorado murderer. Like a previous person noted---there is no way Bob Lonsberry would have pulled out his gun and killed this guy---you would have run like a baby....
# 20. 8/1/12 8:40 AM by Christopher - Newport News, VA
Too many Americans lack the necessary mindset to fight back. Couple this with gun free zones, and the bad guys know that they have a big advantage and their risk is minimal. An armed and trained citizenry levels the playing field and the bad guys are less likely to take the risk. This creates a safer environment for everyone.
You cannot completely depend on the government to protect you. Ultimately, defending yourself and your loved ones is your personal responsibility.
# 21. 8/1/12 8:44 AM by Marv - Rio Medina, TX
That's what is wrong with this once great country, too many giant vaginas who won't stand up and fight. Sad. -- Marv
# 22. 8/1/12 8:48 AM by Thomas M. - Arkport, NY
I carried a .357 snub nose revolver for years, but opted recently to switch to a pocket gun, Ruger LCP in .380 auto, because it's lighter and easier to carry. My .357 seems to print with T-shirts and is heavy when wearing shorts. This theater shooting has me re-thinking my choice of carry weapon. I'm not sure the energy transfer from a .380 to his body armor would have done much... but I do know my .357 would have gotten his attention.
I'm glad you mentioned that although penetration of the armor would have been nice, it isn't necessary when you're leaving softball sized black and blue marks on him from the thump.
Editor's Note: that ruger lcp is almost too small for my hand. to get it to fire, i've got to ball my hand up almost uncomfortably. but it's a beautiful and easy to carry little gun.
# 23. 8/1/12 8:49 AM by Hal - Nuda
There should be semi automatic weapons available in the theaters that are stored in cases like fire extinguishers. You break the glass to access the weapon. That would deter any bad guys.
# 24. 8/1/12 8:52 AM by Mary Pat - Bergin, NY
Bob, I read where there were trained military folks in the audience. Why didn't they react?
Editor's Note: they did. to a man, they threw themselves over others, protecting them with their own bodies. that's how three of them came to die. with no option for offense, they provided the ultimate defense.
# 25. 8/1/12 8:57 AM by l
Would you still want people to shoot, if your son was in the line of fire; or the perpetrator; with guns you had to have?
# 26. 8/1/12 9:01 AM by Eddie - Churchville
"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13)
# 27. 8/1/12 9:04 AM by James - Bergin, NY
The real life heroes in the audience were more amazing than the fictional ones on the screen. If they had been packing it would have been even more of a heroic effort.
# 28. 8/1/12 9:05 AM by Rick G. - Spencerport, NY
If the Ruger LCP is too small, try a S&W Bodyguard .380. It's still small, but it fits my hand a lot better than the Ruger and it's more gun-like (if that makes any sense).
Editor's Note: i've carried an airweight for years, and am doing so today. the humble j-frame is a darned good gun.
# 29. 8/1/12 9:07 AM by Mary - Hamlin
Why DID God let this happen?
Editor's Note: god made people free, even to do evil. we have the right to choose.
# 30. 8/1/12 9:13 AM by Hammer
We all need to carry guns. There are too many road blocks for the law abiding citizen to purchase one. When you can't go to see a movie in safety, it's time for everyone to start packing.
Obama keeps trying to take our guns away but the Republican congress will not let him.
# 31. 8/1/12 9:16 AM by Gary - Williamson
Wow, I am truly amazed by the number of cowards responding to this column. I wonder if their family members realize that these "it's all about me" kids would run away at the first sign of trouble, leaving their loved ones to their fates. Self defense is not only a right, it's a responsibility. As members of a (sort of) free society we have the responsibility to defend ourselves and those around us from the lunatic fringe, something that no one else, including the police, are really able to do. Criminals reading these comments must be very happy to see how many cowering potential victims there are out there.
# 32. 8/1/12 9:18 AM by Sam - Hammondsport
I wonder if a day will come when a headline reads "Patrons Kill Armed Madman" or whether that's a bit too much violence for most people.
# 33. 8/1/12 9:19 AM by S J - Rochester, NY
Yes, by all means, in a crowded-to-capacity theater, with a gas cloud obscuring what little light is provided by the reflections from the movie screen, shoot and shoot and shoot and hope you hit the gunman before you hit 10 innocent people who are running for their lives through the smokey haze.
Editor's Note: the other option is lay down and die. i'll be sure and politely step over your remains.
# 34. 8/1/12 9:20 AM by tom - penfield, ny
There is no nut, quite like a gun nut with delusions of grandeur.
# 35. 8/1/12 9:21 AM by Bills Fan
Fred Smerlas would have tackled the shooter.
# 36. 8/1/12 9:35 AM by Monica
i have to say as a mother with sons - i have instructed them - if in this situation to save themselves at all costs.
Editor's Note: that's why fathers raise sons, so that such immoral cowardice does not overly taint our culture.
# 37. 8/1/12 9:37 AM by youknowmyname - slc ut
I bet if there had been a law that “required” every citizen to carry a gun, the shooter may not have even entered the theater. Isn’t there a law in Texas requiring just that? And the crime rate went down significantly? Another thing, Remember Trolley Square in SLC, an off duty cop took down a shooter?
# 38. 8/1/12 9:39 AM by Boone
I am feeling proud to be a gun owner right now. Thanks Bob.
I started stocking up on ammo so that I am ready when needed.
# 39. 8/1/12 10:00 AM by Matt - Rochester, NY
Nice comment to #36. So if you run as a survival instinct you are a coward. But if you do the stupid thing and stand your ground and get killed, you are a man. You certainly think you are a tough guy don't you Bob? I would LOVE to see you in that situation! I guess all those people who ran and got gunned down are a bunch of cowards. I would love to see all your rent a cop gun braggarts in this forum shooting at each other, because as someone else stated--there would have been no way to get a good and accurate shot without putting everyone else in mortal danger.
Editor's Note: run up in the confusion, press the barrel against his chest, pull the trigger. repeat.
# 40. 8/1/12 10:09 AM by D'Opie Taylor - Mayberry, USA
The theater incident should have everyone reassessing "risky behavior" - both their own and that of others.
If you have a carry permit and don't carry all the time, you are defeating the purpose. Lack of vigilance and discipline will be your downfall. Unexpected incidents do not come at the hour of your choosing. That is why they are called "surprise attacks".
The military people reacted the way they did because they are well trained and are patriots willing to die for what is right. Those who have not had the experience of serving their country first hand should not have disrespect for the motives of those willing to die even for them.
Intimidation is a strong motivator. Everyone questions why the Holocaust survivors didn't rush the guards in the concentration camps. Some did, but we never heard about them because eventually they all died because they wouldn't all stick together in a revolt. If in the future we question the motives of our captors, bear in mind that we now have the necessary data available based on what Hitler, Stalin, and Mao did. It's like high-aim steering, we need to look forward a bit and not be blinded by the tree blocking our view of the forest.
In a situation like the theater incident, even Barney Fife could positively affect the outcome. You don't need the Navy Seals. Did you ever see when Barney needed his gun? He had to go to Sheriff Taylor and then Andy would give him his gun which was kept in Andy's desk drawer. Only when it was a real serious incident would Andy give him a bullet or two. That is the wrong kind of gun control and could have gotten Barney and others killed. And it tilted the odds toward the perpetrators.
# 41. 8/1/12 10:30 AM by Matt - Rochester NY
Life isn't an action movie, you idiot. I've been reading about all these right wing chicken hawks raving about how the solution is for everyone to carry guns everywhere and overnight every civilian will turn into some commando who will react to automatic gunfire at a mall as though he or she were a Green Beret. Only the military and law enforcement should have access to anything other than hunting rifles. Repeal and replace the second amendment. Would probably save 20,000 lives every year.
# 42. 8/1/12 10:32 AM by John - SLC
Written like a true sheepdog.
Just hope some of the pups out there follow your lead.
# 43. 8/1/12 10:45 AM
Bob: #4 may be French but he is also ignorant. It is important to clarify that he had SEMI-automatic weapons. They do NOT, and cannot, shoot at a rate of 50X your weapon. That is the image that 2nd Amendment haters try to portray in order to ban "assault" weapons.
# 44. 8/1/12 10:49 AM by Jimmy
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
# 45. 8/1/12 10:50 AM by Walt - Buford, WY
I carry when I can. unfortunately, even though I have a concealed permit, I am not allowed to carry in state buildings where I conduct most of my business. So, consequently I usually leave my Smith & Wesson .32 in my vehicle most of the time. That won't help much in most circumstances...
# 46. 8/1/12 11:01 AM by Patrick - Syracuse, NY
If I'm not mistaken, there were 2 men at the Gabby Giffords meet and greet who were carrying weapons. I think the psycho was subdued before they even had a chance to pull their guns. The shooter would have been swiss cheese if he hadn't been tackled by others.
Editor's Note: no one had a gun there that day. there was a man at the nearby supermarket who heard the shooting and came out to help. but the killing was done by the time he got there.
# 47. 8/1/12 11:08 AM by Thomas M. - Arkport, NY
RE: Editor's Note: i've carried an airweight for years, and am doing so today. the humble j-frame is a darned good gun.
My wife has an Airweight and I love the way it feels. My brother recently applied for his permit and he's eyeing an LCR. We're a S&W/Ruger family, with quite a few of them between us. It's hard to go wrong with either company.
Editor's Note: agreed. excellent companies and guns.
# 48. 8/1/12 11:27 AM by Richard - Penfield
Editor's Note: run up in the confusion, press the barrel against his chest, pull the trigger. repeat.
How we all admire your ability to provide armchair-quarterback analysis of a life-and-death situation the likes of which you have never been in. From all accounts, the shooter had a clear view of all the people in the theater; any "confusion" in the room would not have extended to him. A skilled marksman might well have been able to wound or kill him from a distance ... but how many gun owners are skilled marksmen? And of that number, how many are skilled in shooting effectively through a panicky crowd?
Like so many gung-ho gun owners, you care a lot about your ability to fire your weapon, and you fantasize about who will be at the receiving end of your shot. Unfortunately, you think much less (or not at all) about the people standing and moving between you and your target. I suppose collateral damage shouldn't get in the way of you feeling like a man, right?
# 49. 8/1/12 11:28 AM by Thomas M. - Arkport, NY
RE: # 41. 8/1/12 10:30 AM by Matt - Rochester NY ...Repeal and replace the second amendment.
Hey boy... you got a pretty mouth.
# 50. 8/1/12 11:44 AM
"# 36. 8/1/12 9:35 AM by Monica i have to say as a mother with sons - i have instructed them - if in this situation to save themselves at all costs.
Editor's Note: that's why fathers raise sons, so that such immoral cowardice does not overly taint our culture."
I'm a mom who, on the other hand, has lectured my kids about doing the exact opposite. I pray my kids are never in such a situation - and then I try to prepare them for the fact that they might be. They aren't old enough for a concealed carry permit, but all of them over 8 carry knives. I tell them that rushing the bad guy could save lives. Hopefully even their own. I've especially emphasized the fact that just because one gets shot doesn't mean they are dead or even totally incapacitated. Keep fighting till your body won't fight any more!
...and until a bad guy comes along, the little ones practice on grouse and the big ones help fill our freezer at elk camp.
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